Signs, Signs, Everywhere are Signs

By Shiger on March 29, 2007

As a public relations executive in downtown Raleigh, I am fascinated when a marketing campaign takes on a life of its own. You have seen the work of the successful campaigns, like the Lance Armstrong yellow wrist bands or the OBX stickers that are glued to so many cars.

Friends of Dorothea Dix Park, one of the accounts I work on, has achieved this rare cultural phenom. The group wants to save all 306 acres of property at Dorothea Dix in Raleigh for a destination park, like New York City’s Central Park.

You have seen their Dix 306 signs. You can’t miss them. Some streets have a sign in every single yard. The signs are not only inside the beltline, but there are Dix 306 signs from Asheville to Manteo. They are in such high demand, that it is a challenge to keep up the supply. So you might be thinking, how do I get one of these signs?

You can find the sign pick-up locations at the following URL, or just use the handy-dandy map Raleighing put together below.

http://www.dix306.org

While you are there, feel free to sign the online petition. Get this, Clay Aiken signed the petition. We thought it might be a hoax, but we checked with his publicist and he is a real supporter for preserving all 306 acres as a destination park. Sometimes, marketing campaigns take on a life of their own.

Posted in Downtown, General Raleigh | 58 Responses

oliver

preserving this is the right thing to do. The last thing we need are more souless condos/apartments. It would be a shame for another mixed use beige bullsh!t project come in here. I live no where near this but I feel sad every time some piece of great land becomes another franchise ridden eyesore.
oliver

preserving this is the right thing to do. The last thing we need are more souless condos/apartments. It would be a shame for another mixed use beige bullsh!t project come in here. I live no where near this but I feel sad every time some piece of great land becomes another franchise ridden eyesore.
rayzer

We have plenty of parks. Would love to see a majestic high rise condo located there in that (currently) depressed location. We need high density housing, less sprawl to make mass transit feasible.
rayzer

We have plenty of parks. Would love to see a majestic high rise condo located there in that (currently) depressed location. We need high density housing, less sprawl to make mass transit feasible.
Chris

There is a park RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM DIX!!!
It’s called Pullen Park.
All that preserving Dix will do is keep property values ITB high by locking up 306 acres from development.
What would happen to property values in Five Points/Anderson Dr. if 306 acres suddenly came on the market in prime ITB area near downtown.
The state should sell the land to the highest bidder and use the proceeds for the mental health system.
Chris

There is a park RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM DIX!!!
It’s called Pullen Park.
All that preserving Dix will do is keep property values ITB high by locking up 306 acres from development.
What would happen to property values in Five Points/Anderson Dr. if 306 acres suddenly came on the market in prime ITB area near downtown.
The state should sell the land to the highest bidder and use the proceeds for the mental health system.
bigmistake

The Dix306 folks have won, which is of course, too bad. Their non-plan for the park is unlikely to produce a destination park that is lively because
1. the density around the park is not going up significantly
2. the only way it becomes a major destination is to pave half of it so all those coming to the destination can park there.
3. Raleigh does not have a history of skillfully managing their current urban spaces.
Within 3 years of Dix emptying out and it being a “destination park,” I predict it will be perceived as sketchy and “owned” in the public mind, by those who will do drugs there.
bigmistake

The Dix306 folks have won, which is of course, too bad. Their non-plan for the park is unlikely to produce a destination park that is lively because
1. the density around the park is not going up significantly
2. the only way it becomes a major destination is to pave half of it so all those coming to the destination can park there.
3. Raleigh does not have a history of skillfully managing their current urban spaces.
Within 3 years of Dix emptying out and it being a “destination park,” I predict it will be perceived as sketchy and “owned” in the public mind, by those who will do drugs there.
bill

Developing Dix would create less density downtown, where it should be. I go to Pullen Park often – and it’s maxed out. Just try to find a parking space or an open tennis court there on a nice weekend. I used to live in Boylan Heights and I can tell you that Dix is already used as a park by a large number of people. Soccer games on multiple fields and a constant stream of people walking/jogging/biking through the property.
Think of the big picture: 25 years from now, the prison will likely be moved to a rural county that could use the jobs at the same time that the RBC Center is ready to be relocated(according to the mayor). Hmmmmm, that would create a large parking lot just across the street, and on the railroad corridor as well.
The land around the park is already changing hands at a steady clip as developers prepare to build around it. Centennial Campus will likely link to the park and there will be greenways and trails that roll for miles – all generating value and appeal for neighboring developments.
If you want all condos, development and no parks, you should check out Las Vegas.
bill

Developing Dix would create less density downtown, where it should be. I go to Pullen Park often – and it’s maxed out. Just try to find a parking space or an open tennis court there on a nice weekend. I used to live in Boylan Heights and I can tell you that Dix is already used as a park by a large number of people. Soccer games on multiple fields and a constant stream of people walking/jogging/biking through the property.
Think of the big picture: 25 years from now, the prison will likely be moved to a rural county that could use the jobs at the same time that the RBC Center is ready to be relocated(according to the mayor). Hmmmmm, that would create a large parking lot just across the street, and on the railroad corridor as well.
The land around the park is already changing hands at a steady clip as developers prepare to build around it. Centennial Campus will likely link to the park and there will be greenways and trails that roll for miles – all generating value and appeal for neighboring developments.
If you want all condos, development and no parks, you should check out Las Vegas.
Travis

Im sure this idea will be ripped apart, but its just a suggestion. Why not make something that could also be a destination place as well as provide the need for better transportation options. Something like a pro baseball stadium. I believe there was an article on this site a while ago stating that Raleigh was on of the top cities that could afford to do this. Im not even sure of what this takes to make something like this happen, so I really dont have any facts to support this either. It would just be neat to have something downtown like this, since they blew it with the rbc center. Ok, tear it apart now. Thanks!
Travis

Im sure this idea will be ripped apart, but its just a suggestion. Why not make something that could also be a destination place as well as provide the need for better transportation options. Something like a pro baseball stadium. I believe there was an article on this site a while ago stating that Raleigh was on of the top cities that could afford to do this. Im not even sure of what this takes to make something like this happen, so I really dont have any facts to support this either. It would just be neat to have something downtown like this, since they blew it with the rbc center. Ok, tear it apart now. Thanks!
Nathan

Travis, I read the same article and if I remember correctly no city in NC could support a MLB team, there are just to many games. I would think the only place that might work would be Greensboro where people from Charlotte and Raleigh could drive to games and it would be the only Pro team in town.
Bill, there seems to be a whole lot of assumptions in your post. I’m not saying I know what is best for the park but assuming that the prison will move and so will the area and this will go here and that there seems like a bad argument to me.
Nathan

Travis, I read the same article and if I remember correctly no city in NC could support a MLB team, there are just to many games. I would think the only place that might work would be Greensboro where people from Charlotte and Raleigh could drive to games and it would be the only Pro team in town.
Bill, there seems to be a whole lot of assumptions in your post. I’m not saying I know what is best for the park but assuming that the prison will move and so will the area and this will go here and that there seems like a bad argument to me.
Dave

I hope it isnt true that this “initiative” has won. Its a waste to make the entire area a park, sure make some of it a park but dont waste that much space on something no one will go to. Its another case of Raleigh trying to be more than it is, there is no need for a “Central Park” in Raleigh. Just seeing that assumption offends me, if I wanted to live in New York id move there. Thinking Raleigh is comparable to New York is also offensive. There are plenty of parks around the area and if another is needed take some of the space at Dix but not all of it.
The campaign’s taken a life of its own because it’s nothing more than the vogue thing to do right now to be hip and make people think they’re involved. I doubt they care less either way and cant wait for the next sign to come along to latch onto.
Chris and BigMistake nailed it with their comments.
What a waste.
Dave

I hope it isnt true that this “initiative” has won. Its a waste to make the entire area a park, sure make some of it a park but dont waste that much space on something no one will go to. Its another case of Raleigh trying to be more than it is, there is no need for a “Central Park” in Raleigh. Just seeing that assumption offends me, if I wanted to live in New York id move there. Thinking Raleigh is comparable to New York is also offensive. There are plenty of parks around the area and if another is needed take some of the space at Dix but not all of it.
The campaign’s taken a life of its own because it’s nothing more than the vogue thing to do right now to be hip and make people think they’re involved. I doubt they care less either way and cant wait for the next sign to come along to latch onto.
Chris and BigMistake nailed it with their comments.
What a waste.
Dave

Oh, and saying Clay Aiken supports it should be enough to drive anyone away.
Dave

Oh, and saying Clay Aiken supports it should be enough to drive anyone away.
Jeff S

I’ll start by saying that I feel that Raleigh is not incorporating enough green space into their planning.
That said, I have read the DixPark whitepaper and am left unimpressed. Why are they proposing rail/monorail access to this park when there is no other public rail system in place? Calling something a Destination, in Raleigh-speak, means it’s something with a BIG parking lot that will attract people to drive from 30+ minutes away. I’m sorry, but a big parking lot is the last thing the area needs.
I just get the feeling that this entire movement is lead by the land developers. I’m sure most of the depressed housing/land in this area has already been bought in anticipation of skyrocketing values. I’m sure there are plenty of people who would like to live in the area (after it’s been white-washed ). It just feels wrong somehow. The talk of tax values, rail systems, centennial campus (which would have been a much better public space BTW) has the feel of corporate interests. “Save the park” is easy for the flock to get behind, but I suspect few have given it much thought.
What about the ailing mental health system? Should it not benefit from the enormous value of this land? I might be inclined to sell half the land specifically for high-density, mixed-use development, give that money to the mental health department and leave the rest for undeveloped, unplanned public use.
At the end of the day, I’m just tired of all these “destinations” meant not for the residents of the city, but to put money in the pockets of the land developers.
Jeff S

I’ll start by saying that I feel that Raleigh is not incorporating enough green space into their planning.
That said, I have read the DixPark whitepaper and am left unimpressed. Why are they proposing rail/monorail access to this park when there is no other public rail system in place? Calling something a Destination, in Raleigh-speak, means it’s something with a BIG parking lot that will attract people to drive from 30+ minutes away. I’m sorry, but a big parking lot is the last thing the area needs.
I just get the feeling that this entire movement is lead by the land developers. I’m sure most of the depressed housing/land in this area has already been bought in anticipation of skyrocketing values. I’m sure there are plenty of people who would like to live in the area (after it’s been white-washed ). It just feels wrong somehow. The talk of tax values, rail systems, centennial campus (which would have been a much better public space BTW) has the feel of corporate interests. “Save the park” is easy for the flock to get behind, but I suspect few have given it much thought.
What about the ailing mental health system? Should it not benefit from the enormous value of this land? I might be inclined to sell half the land specifically for high-density, mixed-use development, give that money to the mental health department and leave the rest for undeveloped, unplanned public use.
At the end of the day, I’m just tired of all these “destinations” meant not for the residents of the city, but to put money in the pockets of the land developers.
bill

I won’t deny that there are many assumptions in my post. The main assumption would be that Raleigh will continue to grow at a rapid rate. I also assume that introducing Dix as a development opportunity would be a detriment to currently planned projects.
I assume the Triangle will continue to compete, as a region, on a worldwide level to attract business and development. That will require mass transit sooner than later to compete with other US cities/regions of a similar size. And yes, the push for this park is led by developers AND by citizens – as evidenced by the signs. The population here will double in 30 years and the landscape and skylines will be remarkably different from the current view. People are pushing for mass transit and this park NOW, to shape future develpment and provide mass – to show that there is a vision for the region and that when we’ve doubled in size, we won’t be surprised (like Atlanta) at what a sprawling mess we’ve become. And yes, the prison being relocated is a major assumption but not at all unlikely. Politics and money ensure it will move eventually. The idea that the arena would relocate there is pure speculation. But it could work.
bill

I won’t deny that there are many assumptions in my post. The main assumption would be that Raleigh will continue to grow at a rapid rate. I also assume that introducing Dix as a development opportunity would be a detriment to currently planned projects.
I assume the Triangle will continue to compete, as a region, on a worldwide level to attract business and development. That will require mass transit sooner than later to compete with other US cities/regions of a similar size. And yes, the push for this park is led by developers AND by citizens – as evidenced by the signs. The population here will double in 30 years and the landscape and skylines will be remarkably different from the current view. People are pushing for mass transit and this park NOW, to shape future develpment and provide mass – to show that there is a vision for the region and that when we’ve doubled in size, we won’t be surprised (like Atlanta) at what a sprawling mess we’ve become. And yes, the prison being relocated is a major assumption but not at all unlikely. Politics and money ensure it will move eventually. The idea that the arena would relocate there is pure speculation. But it could work.
jarobinson

If we’re trying to NOT become a sprawling mess, then we should develop at least some of the park. Leaving it as green space means that development gets pushed further from the city center. If you check out the Plan Comparison, you can see that even the “development” plan (http://dixpark.org/compare_fddp_uli.htm) leaves 210 acres as park.
jarobinson

If we’re trying to NOT become a sprawling mess, then we should develop at least some of the park. Leaving it as green space means that development gets pushed further from the city center. If you check out the Plan Comparison, you can see that even the “development” plan (http://dixpark.org/compare_fddp_uli.htm) leaves 210 acres as park.
Dave

Good point Jaro, I noticed that plan too and think its perfectly fine as is. If the Dix306 people want to keep recruiting they should take that off because it makes their plan look even worse.
Dave

Good point Jaro, I noticed that plan too and think its perfectly fine as is. If the Dix306 people want to keep recruiting they should take that off because it makes their plan look even worse.
Chris

Every acre owned by the government, be it state, county or city, is one more acre not generating tax revenue, further shifting the burden to homeowners.
All that land in West Raleigh owned by the state sitting there is generating no property tax revenue for the City or Wake County.
The only way to keep property taxes from continuing to increase or new horrible taxes from being implemented (like the transfer tax or an additional local option sales tax) is to continue to grow smartly.
What happens in 20 years when the Governor Morehead School or Central Prison is closed? Will we make that land a park too?
Chris

Every acre owned by the government, be it state, county or city, is one more acre not generating tax revenue, further shifting the burden to homeowners.
All that land in West Raleigh owned by the state sitting there is generating no property tax revenue for the City or Wake County.
The only way to keep property taxes from continuing to increase or new horrible taxes from being implemented (like the transfer tax or an additional local option sales tax) is to continue to grow smartly.
What happens in 20 years when the Governor Morehead School or Central Prison is closed? Will we make that land a park too?
Bill

The argument above is missing a simple point. The park will increase property values in all the surrounding property – the property being snatched-up by developers right now. It will increase those values, and the overall tax revenue, because it’s desirable; this is why Park Ave is valuable real estate. Not to compare Raleigh to NYC, but you can think of any world-class city and it will have a nice park. Life in the country is your best option if low property tax is your main consideration. People moving to the city center expect more amenities and city services – These are the things corporations and individuals assess before relocating here: schools, parks, arts and infrastructure. Every time I jog on the greenway system, I’m grateful my tax dollars were used to build it. And build it in Raleigh, not Iraq.
Bill

The argument above is missing a simple point. The park will increase property values in all the surrounding property – the property being snatched-up by developers right now. It will increase those values, and the overall tax revenue, because it’s desirable; this is why Park Ave is valuable real estate. Not to compare Raleigh to NYC, but you can think of any world-class city and it will have a nice park. Life in the country is your best option if low property tax is your main consideration. People moving to the city center expect more amenities and city services – These are the things corporations and individuals assess before relocating here: schools, parks, arts and infrastructure. Every time I jog on the greenway system, I’m grateful my tax dollars were used to build it. And build it in Raleigh, not Iraq.
Dave

You’re ignoring the fact that over 200 acres in the proposed plan is a park. That’s in addition to Pullen Park less than a mile away. And dozens of others within 10 minutes.
No one is arguing against a park, just wasting over 300 acres for just a park.
Dave

You’re ignoring the fact that over 200 acres in the proposed plan is a park. That’s in addition to Pullen Park less than a mile away. And dozens of others within 10 minutes.
No one is arguing against a park, just wasting over 300 acres for just a park.
Bill

Chris wrote:”The state should sell the land to the highest bidder and use the proceeds for the mental health system.”
I apparently misread that as an argument against the park.
Bill

Chris wrote:”The state should sell the land to the highest bidder and use the proceeds for the mental health system.”
I apparently misread that as an argument against the park.
http://www.thedailyrebellion.blogspot.com/ Nick

MLB Park. MLB Park. Major League Baseball Park.
But alas, “NC can’t sustain a pro team” argument will win. Nevermind the Panthers, Hurricanes, and a ton of minor league teams. Lets just build a giant “destination” park next to a large City park, no one visits in the first place.
Bravo Raleigh. Bravo North Carolina. Can you think any smaller?
http://www.thedailyrebellion.blogspot.com Nick

MLB Park. MLB Park. Major League Baseball Park.
But alas, “NC can’t sustain a pro team” argument will win. Nevermind the Panthers, Hurricanes, and a ton of minor league teams. Lets just build a giant “destination” park next to a large City park, no one visits in the first place.
Bravo Raleigh. Bravo North Carolina. Can you think any smaller?
Jeff S

Bill, I’m all for mass transit, but still think that a rail to the park is pointless. Yes, you have to start somewhere, but even if it is eventually connected to something else, it’s, at best, a spur line that will see little to no traffic.
Then again, maybe I’m just clueless about the appeal of this park – sitting between Pullen and Chavis – and how this 200/300 acre marvel will have some unexplainable draw for people.
Jeff S

Bill, I’m all for mass transit, but still think that a rail to the park is pointless. Yes, you have to start somewhere, but even if it is eventually connected to something else, it’s, at best, a spur line that will see little to no traffic.
Then again, maybe I’m just clueless about the appeal of this park – sitting between Pullen and Chavis – and how this 200/300 acre marvel will have some unexplainable draw for people.
Jeff S

“world class destination park” – the more I read it, the more rediculous it sounds.
Jeff S

“world class destination park” – the more I read it, the more rediculous it sounds.
Chris

Bill,
Even the most optimistic developer will tell you that a fairly large percentage of the Dix property is “undevelopable” due to topography.
And let’s not forget, the City still would control zoning for the area.
Just answer this question, what is the market value of 306 acres ITB?
I bet you it’s quite a bit more than the City’s offer of $40 million.
Chris

Bill,
Even the most optimistic developer will tell you that a fairly large percentage of the Dix property is “undevelopable” due to topography.
And let’s not forget, the City still would control zoning for the area.
Just answer this question, what is the market value of 306 acres ITB?
I bet you it’s quite a bit more than the City’s offer of $40 million.
bill

I’m glad you agree the City wouldn’t be overpaying for the land. Unless we enter a major economic recession or depression, we’ll never have that opportunity again.
Mass transit will serve NC State, Centennial Campus, and this park, on the way to downtown. We can’t undevelop the land once light rail becomes a reality.
The population of NYC was less than 500,000 people when they broke ground on Central Park, which is over 800 acres. I think we can all agree it was a brilliant decision. Raleigh in the year 2100 will feel the same way about Dix. They won’t lament the lack of Crosland/J-Davis/Crap brick-on-the-bottom, faux-stucco-on-the-top, condos on all the flat land in the park. There will be plenty surrounding the park.
bill

I’m glad you agree the City wouldn’t be overpaying for the land. Unless we enter a major economic recession or depression, we’ll never have that opportunity again.
Mass transit will serve NC State, Centennial Campus, and this park, on the way to downtown. We can’t undevelop the land once light rail becomes a reality.
The population of NYC was less than 500,000 people when they broke ground on Central Park, which is over 800 acres. I think we can all agree it was a brilliant decision. Raleigh in the year 2100 will feel the same way about Dix. They won’t lament the lack of Crosland/J-Davis/Crap brick-on-the-bottom, faux-stucco-on-the-top, condos on all the flat land in the park. There will be plenty surrounding the park.
Dave

There is no way Raleigh will ever be New York, period. Making that comparison makes the argument to turn all 306 acres into a park even weaker not stronger. The over 200 acres which is planned is more than enough.
Dave

There is no way Raleigh will ever be New York, period. Making that comparison makes the argument to turn all 306 acres into a park even weaker not stronger. The over 200 acres which is planned is more than enough.
Bill

Okay Dave, you are offended with any comparison between NYC and Raleigh; you’ve made that abundantly clear, period. Why don’t you choose some cities for comparison?
Austin has a 300+ acre park downtown. Portland has a 5,000 acre park adjacent to downtown. We’re currently a little smaller than Austin as a region but we’re larger than Portland. But these are parks without condos in them. Please tell me about some good condo park cities – although I do seek out parks when traveling (does that make them destination parks?), I’ve never been to a park with condos in it- unless you consider Cary a park.
Bill

Okay Dave, you are offended with any comparison between NYC and Raleigh; you’ve made that abundantly clear, period. Why don’t you choose some cities for comparison?
Austin has a 300+ acre park downtown. Portland has a 5,000 acre park adjacent to downtown. We’re currently a little smaller than Austin as a region but we’re larger than Portland. But these are parks without condos in them. Please tell me about some good condo park cities – although I do seek out parks when traveling (does that make them destination parks?), I’ve never been to a park with condos in it- unless you consider Cary a park.
Dave

I don’t see a park with condos in it or one proposed. Did I miss the diagram of a donut shaped park with condos inside it? The current plan is fine the way it is. If your whole objection is that you don’t like whats around the parks then the argument is even more absurd. Pullen has condos (small ones) right across the bridge and apartments, guess we should just rip out that park.
Whether its the overkill 300 acres or the more reasonable 200 there will be condos, townhouses, and normal houses around just like there are any other park.
I have yet to hear a rational reason for the 306. There’s no need to compare cities, which is why i don’t feel the need to. Why 306 feels it has to is beyond me, even if the comparison was Austin or Portland or whatever. The 306 plan that is proposed is out of hand and wasteful.
Dave

I don’t see a park with condos in it or one proposed. Did I miss the diagram of a donut shaped park with condos inside it? The current plan is fine the way it is. If your whole objection is that you don’t like whats around the parks then the argument is even more absurd. Pullen has condos (small ones) right across the bridge and apartments, guess we should just rip out that park.
Whether its the overkill 300 acres or the more reasonable 200 there will be condos, townhouses, and normal houses around just like there are any other park.
I have yet to hear a rational reason for the 306. There’s no need to compare cities, which is why i don’t feel the need to. Why 306 feels it has to is beyond me, even if the comparison was Austin or Portland or whatever. The 306 plan that is proposed is out of hand and wasteful.

>raleighing store

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