Flying Past Congested Cities

Traffic_congestion
On October 24, 2006, results from a survey sponsored by WRAL and the News & Observer reported fairly strong interest in mass transit options for the Triangle by residents. The survey included approximately 600 likely voters and among many political questions, asked what the region’s biggest problems are. 28% of those surveyed selected “controlling growth/development” while 26% stated “Traffic congestion”. Education ranked third with 16% of responses while all other issues ranked in single digits. Additional questions asked about citizens’ likelihood to use rail mass transit, a regional bus system, carpooling, and HOV lanes. This survey, which seemed to have a reasonably small amount of bias, concludes that there is strong interest in improving the Triangle’s transportation options.

The Triangle began its population boom in the 1960’s with the advent of the Research Triangle Park (RTP), a sprawling development of business and research campuses between Raleigh and Durham. As people moved in they were impressed with the low tax rates, climate, educational opportunities, and lack of traffic congestion. Many appreciated the conveniences of living in a suburban environment and stayed.

401_cl_rouge_west
As congestion worsened ideas for an economical rail transit system evolved. This system never had much support, however, because planners approached the system completely backwards. They devised a system that would cheaply hit downtown areas, NCSU, RTP, and other minor stops using undeveloped, existing rail corridors. The problem is that they forgot to ask citizens what they want. Most felt the proposed system had novelty value, but wasn’t a viable transit alternative to using their car.

The viability of new transit options depends on how they serve car-loving citizens, not how they change car-loving citizens. It is important, though, that we not forget why people moved here and what kinds of people are attracted to this area. In order for Triangle residents to embrace new transit methods as an adjunct or a replacement to their cars, several conditions must be equal to or superior to the automobile experience.

Safety
The new transit options must be safer than driving a car. Cars are extremely dangerous, so this is an easy parameter to satisfy. In fact, out of 5.2 million drivers statewide, there are approximately 275,000 annual vehicle crashes (753 per day). Every year in North Carolina there are approximately 1,500 traffic deaths (4 per day). So, just over 5% of North Carolina drivers have an accident each year and 0.5% of them will die in those crashes.

Not only must the drivers be safe from collisions, they must be safe from their fellow man. Carjackings are a relatively new challenge to drivers, especially those stopped in congested conditions. According to the National Insurance Crime Bureau, a car is stolen in the U.S. every 25.5 seconds.

Crime rates with alternative mass transit modes are generally low, however there is a strong perception that they are not safe. Perhaps the lack of visible police in transit stations and intense media coverage of crime events contribute to citizen’s association of mass transit and crime.

Travel Time
Many drivers are used to driving cars at speeds of up to 75 miles per hour. Drivers make frequent stops, though, so the commuter’s average speed is usually only somewhere between 20 and 30mph. Many mass transit alternatives offer moderate speeds with few stops, so the average speed is more than the commuter perceives. A transit method that travels just as fast as cars with few stops, in clear view of congested drivers, would be a desirable alternative to the car.

Efficiency
High occupancy transit vehicles (HOTVs) such as buses and trains have the problem of headway, the time between vehicle stops. At many bus and train stops, it is not uncommon to find 15 to 30 minute wait times for a vehicle which holds somewhere between 40 and 400 people. Over the course of an entire day, the total transit load in an HOTV line falls well short of normally flowing highways full of cars. Additionally people tend to reject long platform times as they feel they are wasting time, are not safe, or are uncomfortable because of the climate (wind, rain, cold, etc).

A viable alternative to a car must be as efficient and comfortable as a car to be considered by drivers. Transit alternatives involving shared transport vehicles usually involve a fixed routing system on a fixed delivery schedule. In order for commuters to consider a transit alternative, it must be conveniently accessed and reliable. Bus and train stops are generally accessed by those within a 1/2mile radius of the transit stop. If commuters have to drive their car to access the transit vehicle, they will likely opt to complete their commute in the car instead. Even worse, if one must use three modes of transit, they will certainly opt for staying in their car.

Cost
A transit alternative must also be perceived to be cheaper for the commuter than driving a car. AAA estimates that car costs are 50-cents per mile, or $7,500 per year for a 15,000-mile per year driver. Transit proponents need to remind people that drivers spend more than $20 per day to own and operate their cars, and present an alternative that only costs $10 to $15 per day.

Privacy
Cars offer commuters privacy unmatched by current mass transit options. When faced with the prospect of sitting next to a sneezing stranger in a HOTV versus dictating their own experience in a car, they’ll almost always opt for the privacy of a car. This is an important factor to many people, but it often ignored by transit “experts”.

Flexibility
Cars offer the commuter much flexibility. While people generally follow patterns, they highly value the ability to adapt to pattern changes. Car commuting affords one the chance to stop by the cleaners, stop by the grocery store, leave work early to care for a sick child, and transport large quantities. Mass transit alternatives that work on a fixed schedule and pathway have difficulty matching the flexibility of a car.

Popular Destinations
People know where they want to go, and a transit system must include these destinations. A transit system that does not include the RDU airport, Crabtree Valley Mall, Streets at Southpoint Mall, and the RBC Center/Carter-Finley stadium is not centered on people. Rather, it expects people to center themselves on the system, which will not happen to a worthwhile degree. In order for a transit system to work anywhere, it has to move people where they want to go.

* * *

Car travel is immensely popular, and few alternatives have been accepted. Airplanes feature an enormous speed advantage, but sacrifice privacy, accessibility, and convenience. Passenger trains offer great convenience to the traveler wishing to complete much work on the train, however they do not offer a speed and privacy advantage to cars. They have limited access points and lengthy travel times so Amtrak, for example, is an unpopular option for Americans. We need a local transit option that is faster and safer than a car with similar costs, privacy, and comfort. It has to offer reasonable access, efficiency, and dependability. In short, the alternative that will draw people out of their cars has not been invented yet.

Skytranstop
One idea that seems like a viable concept is an elevated Personal Rail Transit (PRT). Imagine walking up to ½ a mile to a lightweight transit terminal and getting into a personal transit pod. The pod recognizes your wireless key fob (similar to Toyota’s SmartKey) and asks for your destination. You announce “Airport” and through voice recognition, the system recognizes your account, debits your account based on the distance of the trip, moves your pod 60-90mph to RDU. The system handles routing along the rail lines, gives an ETA, and bypasses each station along the way.

There are several interesting PRT concepts such as SkyTran, Futrex’s Monobeam, HighRoad, and Skyloop, however no working prototype for the model above actually exists. A PRT concept introduces some possibilities never seen before with HOTV systems. For instance, most HOTV systems are exorbitantly expensive because they rely on huge land acquisitions that cut objectionable swaths through existing developments. They are thus rejected by neighborhoods and result in half-hearted systems (like Atlanta’s MARTA) which don’t fix the area’s congestion problems, but still cost a fortune. HOTV track segments are custom fabricated on-site, driving up construction costs considerably. One of the biggest expenses with a HOTV systems is the construction of elaborate, ADA-compliant terminals.

Highroad
One problem with adapting current HOTV mass transit models to our region is our lack of population centers and central destinations. RTP office buildings are the primary destination of congested car commuters, however a HOTV only delivers masses of riders to a central point in the sprawling park. A PRT system can deliver these workers more accurately to RTP destinations. In fact, the system could be privately subsidized and secured. For instance, Glaxo could build a private spur from the line which is only accessible by a user password or passkey in the pod. Glaxo could either deny uncleared visitors or allow them in, carefully monitoring them as they exit the pod.

One of the most famous American HOTV systems is probably Disney World’s monorail system. It’s sexy and safe, however not even Disney was able to make the numbers work for monorail expansion when they opened the Animal Kingdom park! Perhaps involving prefabricated construction concepts to transit could drastically reduce construction costs. Most of us had HO train sets when we were little. Those sets contained fewer than 10 standardized pieces and we made them work. Similarly standardized pieces could be made under controlled conditions, transported to the construction site, and set into place at a fraction of the cost of building a traditional rail system.

Cincyprt
Another way to reduce costs is to indirectly address the ADA standards of the transit stations. A very, very small percentage of Americans are handicapped to the point they cannot use stairs, so instead of building expensive terminals, offer a door to door limousine service for handicapped people. This would be far cheaper and serve the handicapped better than it would to create a fixed transit system that caters to their needs.

The SkyTran system is a concept that addresses a many transit problems. The system features lightweight 2-person pods which, using MAG-LEV technology, could be strung along most current roadways replacing brown telephone poles. Its bypass-styled terminals can be dropped literally anywhere in the system, so as demand changes occur, the stops can change, too. The system is so lightweight that it could be run into existing buildings to create some ADA-compliant transit stops, too.

As demands change, the system can call empty pods to migrate and answer demand swells. Should a pod be unsuitably damaged or defaced, a send-to-service button could let the next person on the platform send the pod on its way to the shop. Each pod could contain hidden cameras to monitor rider activities. Should a single rider or pair of riders appear to be breaking system rules, security could send to pod to the nearest station and dump the riders off where police could be waiting.

Skytran_seattle2_web
The SkyTran system claims to drastically reduce costs by accommodating only 2 people at a time. The reduced weight of the pods reduces the superstructure requirements by 99%, drastically changing the construction and economic model. This is totally acceptable, because most commuters are single drivers. No transit system should chiefly aim to serve people transporting large loads of goods or children! We want these commuter groups in cars while we remove the single driver from congestion.

The SkyTran company’s claims of being able to fabricate a system for $1 million per mile are outrageous. We all know how cost estimates run, especially from the conceptual point of development. To put this number in perspective, though, the last TTA proposals estimated costs running about $23 million per mile. Charlotte’s proposed light rail (high tech streetcars) system is now up to $45 million per mile. The Las Vegas Monorail system costs anywhere from $87 million to $150 million per mile (there is a big debate over the actual numbers). Even if SkyTran is off by several million per mile, it is conceivable that the same amount of money it would take to build TTA’s 35-mile proposal could be converted to a 200-mile PRT system that includes more than twice as many Triangle destinations

The News & Observer has an interactive map showing anticipated growth patterns. From this map we can deduct that an ideal system for Raleigh includes several key population center/destinations:

  • Downtown Raleigh
  • Triangle Town Center
  • Crabtree Valley Mall
  • North Hills
  • N.C. State University
  • RBC Center/Carter-Finley Stadium
  • Downtown Cary
  • RDU Airport
  • Brier Creek
  • Downtown Durham
  • Streets at Southpoint Mall
  • Koka Booth Amphitheater
  • Alltel Pavilion

Additionally the Raleigh Master plan shows future job centers in these areas:

  • RTP
  • Downtown Raleigh
  • Highwoods
  • McGregor Park
  • White Oak Crossings (Garner)
  • Capital Blvd/540
  • Knightdale
  • South Raleigh along S. Saunders Street, OTB

Would a system that costs riders 25 cents per mile (half the rate of a car) that serves these areas be enticing? Here is a coverage map which shows a system that would be 181 miles long and serve all of the areas mentioned. The CAT bus system could then be reconfigured to compliment the needs within the PRT’s gaps, rather than canvassing the entire city.

Ral_prtmap_1

Whether it’s environmental impacts, safety impacts, esthetic impacts, costs, or efficiency impacts, every transportation concept has its weaknesses. The PRT concept is not perfect, but is one to consider for matching the needs of our region. Unfortunately the concept is only that. No working models exist, so the concept needs progress.

Congestionatlanta
We need to rethink transportation outside of the box. We need something that serves our needs well and ignores whether or not we are “keeping up” with larger cities’ outdated concepts. We need zealous engineers and engineering students to put all of their energy into new transit concepts, not to develop a better NASCAR car or a remote controlled SUV for the Pentagon. We need greatness.

Cars have done an outstanding job of transporting Americans with flexibility, privacy, and efficiency for almost a century.  Unfortunately the concepts of transit have been stuck in the mud for decades. There is an old saying,”If you keep doing what you’ve done, you’ll keep getting what you’ve been getting.” The introduction of a limited-access HOTV system would not prevent us from “becoming Atlanta”. It would in fact, be exactly Atlanta. Raleigh should strive to be the envy of America’s secondary cities, not the mirror of them. We can be great, but do we have the guts to be?

  • http://www.straypackets.com/ billg

    On cost: A transit cost of $10 to $15 per day will scare people away if they see that cost as solely the price of tickets. Paying $5 to $7.50 to get to work won’t seem very attractive. Also, few will recover the $20 per day cost of car ownership unless they are able to abdandon their car altogether. Very few will be able, or brave enough, to do that.

  • http://www.straypackets.com billg

    On cost: A transit cost of $10 to $15 per day will scare people away if they see that cost as solely the price of tickets. Paying $5 to $7.50 to get to work won’t seem very attractive. Also, few will recover the $20 per day cost of car ownership unless they are able to abdandon their car altogether. Very few will be able, or brave enough, to do that.

  • deb

    It’s not just about having good public transit within a city-wide Light Rail system–it’s also about having good walking/biking routes to get to the stations. Has anyone ever tried to get around Raleigh by foot?
    I have, or at least I tried–I lived here without a car when I first moved here a few months ago. It was horrible. There are hardly any sidewalks and the ones that do exist are in such poor condition–they end randomly and switch to the other side of the road, etc.; drivers are absolutely ignorant and rude here in regards to pedestrian safety and right-of-way (and bicyclist–never mind the fact that there are very few bike lanes); bus stops are poorly marked (nevermind the lack of route maps and no shelter at the stops).
    This is one of the worst cities I’ve ever lived, in regards to public transit. I good LRT needs to be addressed systemically and not just from the point of view of where and how a light rail would work. It’s much bigger than that.

  • deb

    It’s not just about having good public transit within a city-wide Light Rail system–it’s also about having good walking/biking routes to get to the stations. Has anyone ever tried to get around Raleigh by foot?
    I have, or at least I tried–I lived here without a car when I first moved here a few months ago. It was horrible. There are hardly any sidewalks and the ones that do exist are in such poor condition–they end randomly and switch to the other side of the road, etc.; drivers are absolutely ignorant and rude here in regards to pedestrian safety and right-of-way (and bicyclist–never mind the fact that there are very few bike lanes); bus stops are poorly marked (nevermind the lack of route maps and no shelter at the stops).
    This is one of the worst cities I’ve ever lived, in regards to public transit. I good LRT needs to be addressed systemically and not just from the point of view of where and how a light rail would work. It’s much bigger than that.

  • DanRNC

    Bottom line-HOV lanes don’t work (see Charlotte), adding buses doesn’t work (talk about inefficiency), and adding lanes on the highway doesn’t work (we already have ssen that on I-40). Rail is the only EFFICIENT option to address the commuting issues in the Triangle. A single wreck on I-40 now causes an hour to 2 hour delay.

  • DanRNC

    Bottom line-HOV lanes don’t work (see Charlotte), adding buses doesn’t work (talk about inefficiency), and adding lanes on the highway doesn’t work (we already have ssen that on I-40). Rail is the only EFFICIENT option to address the commuting issues in the Triangle. A single wreck on I-40 now causes an hour to 2 hour delay.

  • Matt K

    I thought I recognized the second freeway photo in this blog entry… that’s Highway 401 in Toronto, which I’ve driven many times. :)
    The pod idea is interesting, but sounds ultra-expensive. It’s almost always more expensive to move people in smaller numbers (per person) than it is together. On the other hand (and I hate to bring this up), spreading those riders out makes such a system a much less attractive target for sabotage or (terrorist) attacks, than would a much more densely packed subway or monorail train. It’s a small point in favor, but in favor nonetheless.
    This article makes some good points though. We live in a modern society with a lot of technological ability at hand. Why not think outside the box and come up with some very creative options, rather than just relying on what presently exists elsewhere? Raleigh could have an opportunity to become a model for the future of urban mass transit.

  • Matt K

    I thought I recognized the second freeway photo in this blog entry… that’s Highway 401 in Toronto, which I’ve driven many times. :)
    The pod idea is interesting, but sounds ultra-expensive. It’s almost always more expensive to move people in smaller numbers (per person) than it is together. On the other hand (and I hate to bring this up), spreading those riders out makes such a system a much less attractive target for sabotage or (terrorist) attacks, than would a much more densely packed subway or monorail train. It’s a small point in favor, but in favor nonetheless.
    This article makes some good points though. We live in a modern society with a lot of technological ability at hand. Why not think outside the box and come up with some very creative options, rather than just relying on what presently exists elsewhere? Raleigh could have an opportunity to become a model for the future of urban mass transit.

  • http://wjarrettc.blogspot.com/ Jarrett C.

    Nice article Dana. One thing that is imperative in any transit plan, whatever we push, is that it show a comprehensive view of the long term future. I lived in Austin when they were trying to push light rail in 2000. Basically a referendum came up for a “starter rail” line (similar to TTA’s proposal here) and it got voted down (barely). The problem was the starter line only served about 20% of the potential riders. If you dug deep enough, you could find the comprehensive plan (that looks not unlike the handrawn map here) but the Austin transit authority didn’t heavily promote that fact. Many voters voted against the proposal because it wouldn’t impact them in the short term. Mass transit is about a vision of the future 20, 40, 60 years down the road and unless the transit authorities make this case from day one, most voters are too short sited to support it.

  • http://wjarrettc.blogspot.com Jarrett C.

    Nice article Dana. One thing that is imperative in any transit plan, whatever we push, is that it show a comprehensive view of the long term future. I lived in Austin when they were trying to push light rail in 2000. Basically a referendum came up for a “starter rail” line (similar to TTA’s proposal here) and it got voted down (barely). The problem was the starter line only served about 20% of the potential riders. If you dug deep enough, you could find the comprehensive plan (that looks not unlike the handrawn map here) but the Austin transit authority didn’t heavily promote that fact. Many voters voted against the proposal because it wouldn’t impact them in the short term. Mass transit is about a vision of the future 20, 40, 60 years down the road and unless the transit authorities make this case from day one, most voters are too short sited to support it.

  • http://www.PermissionToSuck.com/ Bruce DeBoer

    Always an interesting discussion. Just like the way our city government pushed the convention center through despite opposition, I believer it will take that kind of leadership to push through a comprehensive mass transit plan (nothing but comprehensive will due IMHO).
    The end result: more growth. Please don’t fool yourself into thinking it will relieve our roadway congestion – it won’t.
    Look at Chicago, NYC, Atlanta, Etc. In fact: Chicago has slowed roadway expansion because they realized it would not solve any problems, only manage to shift population.
    Interesting stuff.

  • http://www.PermissionToSuck.com Bruce DeBoer

    Always an interesting discussion. Just like the way our city government pushed the convention center through despite opposition, I believer it will take that kind of leadership to push through a comprehensive mass transit plan (nothing but comprehensive will due IMHO).
    The end result: more growth. Please don’t fool yourself into thinking it will relieve our roadway congestion – it won’t.
    Look at Chicago, NYC, Atlanta, Etc. In fact: Chicago has slowed roadway expansion because they realized it would not solve any problems, only manage to shift population.
    Interesting stuff.

  • Matt K

    Agree with you, Bruce. I know firsthand how bad congestion is in Chicago – and last summer’s construction made it about as bad as I have ever seen it. There was a big media blitz before construction work started there, warning people how bad the traffice congestion would be and encouraging them to consider public transportation. And it worked – ridership on the trains rose significantly. I think the lesson here is that people won’t ditch their cars until it becomes condition critical – but at least it can be done. I think in Raleigh’s (and the Triangle’s) case, there’s too much sprawl right now with everything being spread out – but with the creation of more population and job density in some areas, rail could eventually work well.

  • Matt K

    Agree with you, Bruce. I know firsthand how bad congestion is in Chicago – and last summer’s construction made it about as bad as I have ever seen it. There was a big media blitz before construction work started there, warning people how bad the traffice congestion would be and encouraging them to consider public transportation. And it worked – ridership on the trains rose significantly. I think the lesson here is that people won’t ditch their cars until it becomes condition critical – but at least it can be done. I think in Raleigh’s (and the Triangle’s) case, there’s too much sprawl right now with everything being spread out – but with the creation of more population and job density in some areas, rail could eventually work well.

  • Jeff S

    This is a no-win situation.
    Yes, the average voter wants traffic and transportation improvements, but all that means is they want other people to take the train so they can continue driving to work. Noone is willing to sacrifice to make it happen.
    Insisting on a plan that will include these outlying shopping areas will only assure that no plan exists at all. Worse yet, it will only further encourage the sprawl that has created the problem in the first place.
    We cannot continue to wish for a solution while failing to instute any planning and rubber-stamping every new 1000 home neighborhood and shopping “park” that’s planned.
    A small start is still a start. Focus on a small area of town, and I’m certainly not saying it has to be downtown. It would actually be easier if it weren’t. Go into east raleigh or somewhere there is still some open land. Build structured communities with a contained rail system with a spur into downtown. From there people can get into RTP. Use it as a model for what the rest of the area could be.
    Allow the people the choice of moving into the more dense development with the established transportation system. Charlotte had it right when they planned exactly this. Rail with DENSE zoning along the corridor. If you insist on coming to the people, instead of making them come to the rail, you’ll still be sitting here in 20 years with no mass transit, and a problem twice as bad as it is now.
    Honestly though, I don’t think there is a solution for this area. It’s beyond fixing and is the type of city that will all but disappear when the petroleum bubble burts.

  • Jeff S

    This is a no-win situation.
    Yes, the average voter wants traffic and transportation improvements, but all that means is they want other people to take the train so they can continue driving to work. Noone is willing to sacrifice to make it happen.
    Insisting on a plan that will include these outlying shopping areas will only assure that no plan exists at all. Worse yet, it will only further encourage the sprawl that has created the problem in the first place.
    We cannot continue to wish for a solution while failing to instute any planning and rubber-stamping every new 1000 home neighborhood and shopping “park” that’s planned.
    A small start is still a start. Focus on a small area of town, and I’m certainly not saying it has to be downtown. It would actually be easier if it weren’t. Go into east raleigh or somewhere there is still some open land. Build structured communities with a contained rail system with a spur into downtown. From there people can get into RTP. Use it as a model for what the rest of the area could be.
    Allow the people the choice of moving into the more dense development with the established transportation system. Charlotte had it right when they planned exactly this. Rail with DENSE zoning along the corridor. If you insist on coming to the people, instead of making them come to the rail, you’ll still be sitting here in 20 years with no mass transit, and a problem twice as bad as it is now.
    Honestly though, I don’t think there is a solution for this area. It’s beyond fixing and is the type of city that will all but disappear when the petroleum bubble burts.

  • Betsy

    Dana, we need more bold thinking and creative ideas like yours. You have put forward something very different from what has been considered so far.
    This kind of fearlessness and imaginative thinking is what we need to address 21st-century issues. It’s the “vision thing” !

  • Betsy

    Dana, we need more bold thinking and creative ideas like yours. You have put forward something very different from what has been considered so far.
    This kind of fearlessness and imaginative thinking is what we need to address 21st-century issues. It’s the “vision thing” !

  • tj

    Honestly, I think there IS a solution for this area, although not a perfect one. They way the city (area) is sprawled out right now makes it very difficult for a rail system to serve most of the population.
    But guess what? Raleigh and the rest of Triangle will continue to attract hundreds of thousands of people over the next 15-20 years. Building a rail system like TTA’s Phase 1 will spur tremendous Transit Oriented Development along the rail, therefore guiding a new smart growth. Without a fixed rail system, it will be SCARY to see what kind of sprawl this area will experience.
    What is needed immediately is a comprehensive restructuring of the area’s bus system. There is just no excuse for the pathetic bus service in this area.

  • tj

    Honestly, I think there IS a solution for this area, although not a perfect one. They way the city (area) is sprawled out right now makes it very difficult for a rail system to serve most of the population.
    But guess what? Raleigh and the rest of Triangle will continue to attract hundreds of thousands of people over the next 15-20 years. Building a rail system like TTA’s Phase 1 will spur tremendous Transit Oriented Development along the rail, therefore guiding a new smart growth. Without a fixed rail system, it will be SCARY to see what kind of sprawl this area will experience.
    What is needed immediately is a comprehensive restructuring of the area’s bus system. There is just no excuse for the pathetic bus service in this area.

  • Jeff S

    Re: TTA Phase 1
    Will… don’t you mean would have?
    If they couldn’t get their act together with federal money on the table, what hope is there now that it’s gone?
    As someone who used to be a regular bus rider (ten years ago – though it hasn’t changed), yes, it’s very difficult and extremely time consuming to navigate. Again though, the problem is the land-area that must be covered. The underlying problem is that Raleigh car owners aren’t even considering getting on a bus. They have an excuse, but they always will.
    If I were forced to propose a first step in solving the problem it would be to stop all new road projects.
    Then again, I’m the minority freak who rides his bicycle to work every day – so I’m certainly not representative of the area. My long-term goal is to be car-free – which could happen tomorrow in any number of more progressive cities.

  • Jeff S

    Re: TTA Phase 1
    Will… don’t you mean would have?
    If they couldn’t get their act together with federal money on the table, what hope is there now that it’s gone?
    As someone who used to be a regular bus rider (ten years ago – though it hasn’t changed), yes, it’s very difficult and extremely time consuming to navigate. Again though, the problem is the land-area that must be covered. The underlying problem is that Raleigh car owners aren’t even considering getting on a bus. They have an excuse, but they always will.
    If I were forced to propose a first step in solving the problem it would be to stop all new road projects.
    Then again, I’m the minority freak who rides his bicycle to work every day – so I’m certainly not representative of the area. My long-term goal is to be car-free – which could happen tomorrow in any number of more progressive cities.

  • J. Travis Horton

    Sky Tran seems like the solution to me.
    Check it out.
    I’d like to see the good burghers of the Triangle get a team of engineers and social scientists together to explore implementing SkyTran here.
    It seems all too simple.

  • J. Travis Horton

    Sky Tran seems like the solution to me.
    Check it out.
    I’d like to see the good burghers of the Triangle get a team of engineers and social scientists together to explore implementing SkyTran here.
    It seems all too simple.

  • ChiefJoJo

    “If you insist on coming to the people, instead of making them come to the rail, you’ll still be sitting here in 20 years with no mass transit, and a problem twice as bad as it is now.”
    The Triangle as it currently stands is not built for transit. A good transit system is not workable without correspondingly dense land use in key locations. The good news is it’s not too late and there seems to be some movement towards urban infill development (see downtown Raleigh) and “smarter growth” in the region. The bottom line is if you want to live in suburbia, transit most likely isn’t going to be for you, and that’s just the way it is basically anywhere in the world. The Triangle needs to decide if we really want to be a world-class community with multiple transportation options or just another sprawling, suburban Atlanta.

  • ChiefJoJo

    “If you insist on coming to the people, instead of making them come to the rail, you’ll still be sitting here in 20 years with no mass transit, and a problem twice as bad as it is now.”
    The Triangle as it currently stands is not built for transit. A good transit system is not workable without correspondingly dense land use in key locations. The good news is it’s not too late and there seems to be some movement towards urban infill development (see downtown Raleigh) and “smarter growth” in the region. The bottom line is if you want to live in suburbia, transit most likely isn’t going to be for you, and that’s just the way it is basically anywhere in the world. The Triangle needs to decide if we really want to be a world-class community with multiple transportation options or just another sprawling, suburban Atlanta.

  • http://www.raleighmsa.com/ Ernest Pecounis

    First of all, excellent presentation, with many good ideas demonstrated. Two thumbs up!!!
    Second, I am not an expert, or even knowledgeable enough in public transportation matters, which is why I am not as passionate, although very interested. Having spent my first 25 years in cities with good mass transit, used the latter extensively and gone through the traffic troubles of the Triangle I must say that I am a bit puzzled with how much we failed to establish something early enough.
    The Triangle, and Raleigh in particular, has seen a lot of sprawl as a result of the growth. The dynamics of our society makes car dependency in areas like ours somewhat inevitable. Let’s not kid ourselves, our cities have grown much larger in area and population. We cannot expect people to give up their cars entirely. After all, the car represents progress in many ways. What we need to do, in my opinion, is to create truly mixed-use areas and encourage walking. Even if the new communities are not urban in the sense of the traditional communities of yesteryears, we can still make them easy to access via public transit.
    Suggestion: Revise the goals to include connecting major destinations (i.e. RBC Entertainment & Sports Arena, SAS Soccer Stadium, Alltel Pavilion) with the most populous areas of the area. This would solve a lot of parking headaches for thousands of people. In the early stages, it may be major events that will popularize any local rail system. Not the only way to achieve results, but certainly a major step forward. I surely hope that our cities and towns learn from the mistakes of the past and cooperate extensively, because I do not see how only a few people can make the difference when it comes to mass transit.

  • http://www.raleighmsa.com Ernest Pecounis

    First of all, excellent presentation, with many good ideas demonstrated. Two thumbs up!!!
    Second, I am not an expert, or even knowledgeable enough in public transportation matters, which is why I am not as passionate, although very interested. Having spent my first 25 years in cities with good mass transit, used the latter extensively and gone through the traffic troubles of the Triangle I must say that I am a bit puzzled with how much we failed to establish something early enough.
    The Triangle, and Raleigh in particular, has seen a lot of sprawl as a result of the growth. The dynamics of our society makes car dependency in areas like ours somewhat inevitable. Let’s not kid ourselves, our cities have grown much larger in area and population. We cannot expect people to give up their cars entirely. After all, the car represents progress in many ways. What we need to do, in my opinion, is to create truly mixed-use areas and encourage walking. Even if the new communities are not urban in the sense of the traditional communities of yesteryears, we can still make them easy to access via public transit.
    Suggestion: Revise the goals to include connecting major destinations (i.e. RBC Entertainment & Sports Arena, SAS Soccer Stadium, Alltel Pavilion) with the most populous areas of the area. This would solve a lot of parking headaches for thousands of people. In the early stages, it may be major events that will popularize any local rail system. Not the only way to achieve results, but certainly a major step forward. I surely hope that our cities and towns learn from the mistakes of the past and cooperate extensively, because I do not see how only a few people can make the difference when it comes to mass transit.

  • bill

    People continue to believe that it’s too late for rail and that the Triangle has already boomed. Sunday’s NY Times had an article about growth in Raleigh and has some really impressive statistics: http://www.nytimes.com/pages/realestate/index.html
    article titled: “When You’re moving…”
    And a visit to the maternity ward of any local hospital will give you an immediate wakeup call to the population boom occurring here. Development in the Raleigh and the Triangle may crash sometime but it seems more likely to grow beyond current expectations. Rail service and the accompanying development are not too late to integrate into Raleigh’s plan.
    The main complaint about the Sky Tran system was the visual clutter and shadows resulting from the tracks but you could run that system down I-40, 15-501, Capital Boulevard, Western Boulevard, New Bern Avenue – all of the major arteries of the Triangle and people would thank you for blocking the trashy views. Eventually those areas would be redeveloped as more pedestrian friendly areas with buildings closer to each other and to the street. Isn’t it possible to link trolley/light rail/Sky Tran and bus in one system?
    And I couldn’t agree more with Deb about how unfriendly Raleigh is to pedestrians and cyclists. This is a serious consideration that should be incorporated into any mass transit plan. The Coker Tower opponents protested that the plan didn’t make concessions for Pedestrians and yet, the Cameron Village neighborhood has no sidewalks. And when the luxury townhomes on Wade were being built during those protests, they were built with no sidewalks on Wade – but they weren’t tall , so nobody cares. The resulting intersection at Oberlin and Wade is one of the most unfriendly areas I encounter when commuting by bicycle – completely dangerous. This is an issue people use when they are against something, they never fight FOR it and they’d most surely prostest the city adding a sidewalk to their yard.

  • bill

    People continue to believe that it’s too late for rail and that the Triangle has already boomed. Sunday’s NY Times had an article about growth in Raleigh and has some really impressive statistics: http://www.nytimes.com/pages/realestate/index.html
    article titled: “When You’re moving…”
    And a visit to the maternity ward of any local hospital will give you an immediate wakeup call to the population boom occurring here. Development in the Raleigh and the Triangle may crash sometime but it seems more likely to grow beyond current expectations. Rail service and the accompanying development are not too late to integrate into Raleigh’s plan.
    The main complaint about the Sky Tran system was the visual clutter and shadows resulting from the tracks but you could run that system down I-40, 15-501, Capital Boulevard, Western Boulevard, New Bern Avenue – all of the major arteries of the Triangle and people would thank you for blocking the trashy views. Eventually those areas would be redeveloped as more pedestrian friendly areas with buildings closer to each other and to the street. Isn’t it possible to link trolley/light rail/Sky Tran and bus in one system?
    And I couldn’t agree more with Deb about how unfriendly Raleigh is to pedestrians and cyclists. This is a serious consideration that should be incorporated into any mass transit plan. The Coker Tower opponents protested that the plan didn’t make concessions for Pedestrians and yet, the Cameron Village neighborhood has no sidewalks. And when the luxury townhomes on Wade were being built during those protests, they were built with no sidewalks on Wade – but they weren’t tall , so nobody cares. The resulting intersection at Oberlin and Wade is one of the most unfriendly areas I encounter when commuting by bicycle – completely dangerous. This is an issue people use when they are against something, they never fight FOR it and they’d most surely prostest the city adding a sidewalk to their yard.

  • Bill Phelps

    It’s not fair to trash the Phase one plan about where it doesn’t go. You have to start somewhere and spurs to those other locations can be built later. It makes sense to me to connect Raleigh and Durham. You then have a foundation to build additional lines to Johnston County or Brier Creek or Holly Springs or wherever. While it would be cool to take a train the the Arena or Walnut Creek, those places would have very limited ridership only during events. The big thing we have to concentrate on is the busiest road in the Triangle… I-40 during rush hour through the park. Phase-1 directly addressed that issue. I don’t see how setting up a phase-1 somewhere else would be more effective.

  • Bill Phelps

    It’s not fair to trash the Phase one plan about where it doesn’t go. You have to start somewhere and spurs to those other locations can be built later. It makes sense to me to connect Raleigh and Durham. You then have a foundation to build additional lines to Johnston County or Brier Creek or Holly Springs or wherever. While it would be cool to take a train the the Arena or Walnut Creek, those places would have very limited ridership only during events. The big thing we have to concentrate on is the busiest road in the Triangle… I-40 during rush hour through the park. Phase-1 directly addressed that issue. I don’t see how setting up a phase-1 somewhere else would be more effective.

  • http://www.PermissionToSuck.com/ Bruce DeBoer

    Sky tran = Elevated Train – how well did that work for NYC? … just a thought.
    Also – I believe the rail system will be used when all the car users get tired of driving 1.5 hours to go 15 miles: It WILL happen. No one in NYC, Chicago or Boston would rather take the train that a car but the trade off is painful: parking, traffic jams, etc.
    We really do need to think of the future and look at larger cities – It’s definately NOT too late. It’s never too late but will need to find some visinary leaders to sell it.

  • http://www.PermissionToSuck.com Bruce DeBoer

    Sky tran = Elevated Train – how well did that work for NYC? … just a thought.
    Also – I believe the rail system will be used when all the car users get tired of driving 1.5 hours to go 15 miles: It WILL happen. No one in NYC, Chicago or Boston would rather take the train that a car but the trade off is painful: parking, traffic jams, etc.
    We really do need to think of the future and look at larger cities – It’s definately NOT too late. It’s never too late but will need to find some visinary leaders to sell it.

  • bill

    I believe the “EL”, or the “L” trains still work well in Chicago and they still run in Philadelphia and the outer boroughs of NYC. The old steel and wood structures require major upkeep because they are, in essence, bridges that require constant painting and repair but the advantage of the Sky-Tran would be the lighter weight and more minimal structure. I don’t know that I’m sold on the Sky-Tran but it is worth consideration.
    Over the summer I went from Hoboken to Coney Island. A nice trip that went from an old dilapidated ferry terminal in Hoboken to a new, sleek, glass and steel terminal in Mid-Town Manhattan, then a Subway train that becomes elevated in Brooklyn and ends in a nice new terminal in Coney Island – which is just now becoming condo-fied. So elevated trains still work fine, especially in conjunction with other modes of transit like trolleys and bus lines. Different areas of a city will dictate the best mode of transit.
    In the past, trolley lines and commuter lines were often subsidized by the developers of the suburban land that the lines would feed. I’d love to see that as a modern day requirement if only to watch the N&O;’s Rick Martinez lose his mind.

  • bill

    I believe the “EL”, or the “L” trains still work well in Chicago and they still run in Philadelphia and the outer boroughs of NYC. The old steel and wood structures require major upkeep because they are, in essence, bridges that require constant painting and repair but the advantage of the Sky-Tran would be the lighter weight and more minimal structure. I don’t know that I’m sold on the Sky-Tran but it is worth consideration.
    Over the summer I went from Hoboken to Coney Island. A nice trip that went from an old dilapidated ferry terminal in Hoboken to a new, sleek, glass and steel terminal in Mid-Town Manhattan, then a Subway train that becomes elevated in Brooklyn and ends in a nice new terminal in Coney Island – which is just now becoming condo-fied. So elevated trains still work fine, especially in conjunction with other modes of transit like trolleys and bus lines. Different areas of a city will dictate the best mode of transit.
    In the past, trolley lines and commuter lines were often subsidized by the developers of the suburban land that the lines would feed. I’d love to see that as a modern day requirement if only to watch the N&O’s Rick Martinez lose his mind.

  • http://profile.typekey.com/chrisjam/ Chris

    Thanks for the article, Dana! Not too shabby… for a dentist! ;-)
    The same reason the Triangle has been a desirable area for both businesses and residents is the same reason a successful rail system is just so hard to implement here. I agree with all those who said we certainly need consider 10, 20, 30 years from now, and mass transit (like a rail system) is something that needs to be figured out no matter what… BUT, in the somewhat short term, there really is no mass transit solution which would make any of our current situations any better. You see, RTP was an absolute God-send to this area for years and years. I am sure everyone agrees that we probably wouldn’t even be on the map if it weren’t for the enticing benefits for placing a business in RTP in the 60s, 70s, and so on. And, the location, layout, and restrictions in RTP are exactly the reason we DON’T have a serious traffic problem to date (those of you who think the problem is currently serious need to travel a bit more). We aren’t trying to cram hundreds of thousands of workers into a few square miles, but rather we all (ok, the majority of us) drive out of town to go to work and pull into sprawling campuses with lots of trees, and ponds, and ducks, and biking/jogging trails. Serving this majority with mass transit is nearly impossible right now without tripling our commute times. Even the 181 mile idea above–which would absolutely go much further in serving the target market–would require most, if not all, to use an additional form of mass transit to actually make it to their destination.
    So, we’re left with the question of whether we want to continue focusing our business development to the areas between our cities or would we rather attract more businesses to our downtowns which can thus be served by mass transit. Perhaps we need to start with a Triangle-wide plan of where we want to focus and why? Everyone agrees that things like mass transit can help control development but do we actually know where we want to develop? Do we have a real plan for what we want the Triangle to become? We need to, because like Atlanta, there is nothing geographically reigning us in (i.e. mountains, oceans, rivers, massively used transit corridors [except I-85], etc) so further sprawl is certainly where inertia, private developers, and tax/money hungry politics will take us.

  • http://profile.typekey.com/chrisjam/ Chris

    Thanks for the article, Dana! Not too shabby… for a dentist! ;-)
    The same reason the Triangle has been a desirable area for both businesses and residents is the same reason a successful rail system is just so hard to implement here. I agree with all those who said we certainly need consider 10, 20, 30 years from now, and mass transit (like a rail system) is something that needs to be figured out no matter what… BUT, in the somewhat short term, there really is no mass transit solution which would make any of our current situations any better. You see, RTP was an absolute God-send to this area for years and years. I am sure everyone agrees that we probably wouldn’t even be on the map if it weren’t for the enticing benefits for placing a business in RTP in the 60s, 70s, and so on. And, the location, layout, and restrictions in RTP are exactly the reason we DON’T have a serious traffic problem to date (those of you who think the problem is currently serious need to travel a bit more). We aren’t trying to cram hundreds of thousands of workers into a few square miles, but rather we all (ok, the majority of us) drive out of town to go to work and pull into sprawling campuses with lots of trees, and ponds, and ducks, and biking/jogging trails. Serving this majority with mass transit is nearly impossible right now without tripling our commute times. Even the 181 mile idea above–which would absolutely go much further in serving the target market–would require most, if not all, to use an additional form of mass transit to actually make it to their destination.
    So, we’re left with the question of whether we want to continue focusing our business development to the areas between our cities or would we rather attract more businesses to our downtowns which can thus be served by mass transit. Perhaps we need to start with a Triangle-wide plan of where we want to focus and why? Everyone agrees that things like mass transit can help control development but do we actually know where we want to develop? Do we have a real plan for what we want the Triangle to become? We need to, because like Atlanta, there is nothing geographically reigning us in (i.e. mountains, oceans, rivers, massively used transit corridors [except I-85], etc) so further sprawl is certainly where inertia, private developers, and tax/money hungry politics will take us.

  • Jeff S

    “We cannot expect people to give up their cars entirely. After all, the car represents progress in many ways.”
    Progress such as pollution, traffic, global wars, terrorism… that kind of progress?
    No, it’s rediculous to think that people in this area would ever consider giving up their cars. I would be thrilled just to see a few less single people heading to work in their Expedition/Hummer/etc all by their lonesome.
    For people in other cities though, living without a car is a real possiblity. Won’t happen here because people simply don’t want to part with their cars. Only when people can no longer afford to drive (as the oil runs out) will that mentality begin to change. Unfortunatly, there will not be enough time left for unprepared cities like ours to do anything to help the people at that point.
    Maybe there is 100 years of oil in the ground. If there were only 20 though, how would YOU continue to get to work?

  • Jeff S

    “We cannot expect people to give up their cars entirely. After all, the car represents progress in many ways.”
    Progress such as pollution, traffic, global wars, terrorism… that kind of progress?
    No, it’s rediculous to think that people in this area would ever consider giving up their cars. I would be thrilled just to see a few less single people heading to work in their Expedition/Hummer/etc all by their lonesome.
    For people in other cities though, living without a car is a real possiblity. Won’t happen here because people simply don’t want to part with their cars. Only when people can no longer afford to drive (as the oil runs out) will that mentality begin to change. Unfortunatly, there will not be enough time left for unprepared cities like ours to do anything to help the people at that point.
    Maybe there is 100 years of oil in the ground. If there were only 20 though, how would YOU continue to get to work?

  • http://www.raleighmsa.com/ Ernest Pecounis

    Jeff S,
    If you ever have a heart attack, make sure they take you to the hospital by foot, or bicycle, and not by abulance. In case you wonder where this came from, re-read your last post, especially this part: “Progress such as pollution, traffic, global wars, terrorism… that kind of progress?”
    Now, if you want to be serious, I challenge you to tell me that technological progress in the automobile industry and the ability to travel faster has not benefitted our life. What is wrong with being able to take my family to a nice vacation and do it at my own leisure and schedule? Yes, try the bicycle next time you wish to visit relatives out of state and tell me how better your life is.
    Pollution is not only related to cars. The film industry, with all those explosions and fuel usage, is one of the biggest polluters in California, if the report I heard about was correct. By the way, who said that cars need to run exclusively on gasoline. Or you think that oil is used only for fuels? There are thousands of products, including your bicycle helmet, that require oil somewhere in the process of their making. In fact, there are thousands of products that people use every day that fall on the same category. Dependency on oil goes way beyond cars.
    If you think you are the only person who desires walkable communities, created for humans and not for cars, then think again. Most people who depend a lot on their cars do so because they have no choice. If you want to blame someone, blame the developers and the city planners. I truly hate having to get behind the wheel to go where I want/need to go. Unfortunately, there is very little I can do at this point in time, which is why I advocate better mass transit. I get angry enough every day driving from my house to work and back… I can use some time to relax.
    However, if you want to live in a utopian society, where everything is perfect, and your needs do not extend beyond a short distance from your house, then good luck, because Raleigh will never be that place. We are fighting hard to keep this city from becoming the worst nightmare for its residents and the last thing we want is to look into Utopia for inspirations.

  • http://www.raleighmsa.com Ernest Pecounis

    Jeff S,
    If you ever have a heart attack, make sure they take you to the hospital by foot, or bicycle, and not by abulance. In case you wonder where this came from, re-read your last post, especially this part: “Progress such as pollution, traffic, global wars, terrorism… that kind of progress?”
    Now, if you want to be serious, I challenge you to tell me that technological progress in the automobile industry and the ability to travel faster has not benefitted our life. What is wrong with being able to take my family to a nice vacation and do it at my own leisure and schedule? Yes, try the bicycle next time you wish to visit relatives out of state and tell me how better your life is.
    Pollution is not only related to cars. The film industry, with all those explosions and fuel usage, is one of the biggest polluters in California, if the report I heard about was correct. By the way, who said that cars need to run exclusively on gasoline. Or you think that oil is used only for fuels? There are thousands of products, including your bicycle helmet, that require oil somewhere in the process of their making. In fact, there are thousands of products that people use every day that fall on the same category. Dependency on oil goes way beyond cars.
    If you think you are the only person who desires walkable communities, created for humans and not for cars, then think again. Most people who depend a lot on their cars do so because they have no choice. If you want to blame someone, blame the developers and the city planners. I truly hate having to get behind the wheel to go where I want/need to go. Unfortunately, there is very little I can do at this point in time, which is why I advocate better mass transit. I get angry enough every day driving from my house to work and back… I can use some time to relax.
    However, if you want to live in a utopian society, where everything is perfect, and your needs do not extend beyond a short distance from your house, then good luck, because Raleigh will never be that place. We are fighting hard to keep this city from becoming the worst nightmare for its residents and the last thing we want is to look into Utopia for inspirations.

  • JG

    Dana,my man – L-I-T-E-R-A-I-L spelled any way you want is another name for super-colossal boondoggle of the first order. We would be asking a governmental entity to spend money wisely….that’s an oxymoron if there ever was one. And, we would be asking us good ole boys to give up our wheels…No trans fats, and then that…no way! Enjoy R’ING…keep diggin’ the dirt.

  • JG

    Dana,my man – L-I-T-E-R-A-I-L spelled any way you want is another name for super-colossal boondoggle of the first order. We would be asking a governmental entity to spend money wisely….that’s an oxymoron if there ever was one. And, we would be asking us good ole boys to give up our wheels…No trans fats, and then that…no way! Enjoy R’ING…keep diggin’ the dirt.

  • Rob

    The argument saying we need more density before we can have a TTA type system is interesting considering it is not uncommon for some local municipalities to place contingencies on large developments that limit the number of units to whether a TTA system is, or is not built. Approved density is often limited by required Traffic Impact Analysis results for existing road infrastructure; therefore, increased density is not approved that will justify future mass transit. So which comes first, the chicken or the egg (the density, or a means of transport)? Meanwhile, we have one often blocked artery connecting our major employment hubs together that will only get increasingly congested – and no alternatives.

  • Rob

    The argument saying we need more density before we can have a TTA type system is interesting considering it is not uncommon for some local municipalities to place contingencies on large developments that limit the number of units to whether a TTA system is, or is not built. Approved density is often limited by required Traffic Impact Analysis results for existing road infrastructure; therefore, increased density is not approved that will justify future mass transit. So which comes first, the chicken or the egg (the density, or a means of transport)? Meanwhile, we have one often blocked artery connecting our major employment hubs together that will only get increasingly congested – and no alternatives.

  • Rob

    The argument saying we need more density before we can have a TTA type system is interesting considering it is not uncommon for some local municipalities to place contingencies on large developments that limit the number of units to whether a TTA system is, or is not built. Approved density is often limited by required Traffic Impact Analysis results for existing road infrastructure; therefore, increased density is not approved that will justify future mass transit. So which comes first, the chicken or the egg (the density, or a means of transport)? Meanwhile, we have one often blocked artery connecting our major employment hubs together that will only get increasingly congested – and no alternatives.

  • Rob

    The argument saying we need more density before we can have a TTA type system is interesting considering it is not uncommon for some local municipalities to place contingencies on large developments that limit the number of units to whether a TTA system is, or is not built. Approved density is often limited by required Traffic Impact Analysis results for existing road infrastructure; therefore, increased density is not approved that will justify future mass transit. So which comes first, the chicken or the egg (the density, or a means of transport)? Meanwhile, we have one often blocked artery connecting our major employment hubs together that will only get increasingly congested – and no alternatives.

  • J. Travis Horton

    To call light rail (and other mass transit options) a “super-colossal boondoggle” avoids the issue.
    I remember years ago, when the 540 outer loop was being proposed, seeing an article about the depletion of oil around 2025. The estimated completion date of the outer loop was … 2025. Is the outer loop a boondoggle?
    If we are going to continue to live in the first world, we need to get on with the “electrification” of transportation.
    Read about it here: http://www.energybulletin.net/14492.html
    Even if you don’t buy into the notion of peak oil, there are plenty of other issues, including global warming and air quality, which must be addressed by our society as a whole.
    Mass transit is the only option.

  • J. Travis Horton

    To call light rail (and other mass transit options) a “super-colossal boondoggle” avoids the issue.
    I remember years ago, when the 540 outer loop was being proposed, seeing an article about the depletion of oil around 2025. The estimated completion date of the outer loop was … 2025. Is the outer loop a boondoggle?
    If we are going to continue to live in the first world, we need to get on with the “electrification” of transportation.
    Read about it here: http://www.energybulletin.net/14492.html
    Even if you don’t buy into the notion of peak oil, there are plenty of other issues, including global warming and air quality, which must be addressed by our society as a whole.
    Mass transit is the only option.