Another North Hills-ish shopping center is in the works, this time in North Raleigh on Falls of the Neuse Road at Honeycutt. As you know, we here at Raleighing are certainly excited about smart development in Raleigh and on some level are proponents of the success of capitalism in our area.
So, let me first say that I like the design of Lafayette Village. The drawings certainly give the impression of a quaintness which has not been achieved by North Hills. And, it appears the designers have taken a cue from North Hills by putting a majority of the parking underneath the shopping center, out of the view of drivers-by. Concept alone, I like it.
But, I have a hard time believing that a boutique-focused center will work at that location. Even the highly-lauded North Hills still has many spaces left empty. Obviously, Lafayette Village will have much lower lease rates, but the area around that location has not proven to be ridiculously successful for that format. Scout and Mollys and Cravings have both experienced much more success after moving out of Falls Village and into North Hills. Just up the road in Falls Pointe Shopping Center, boutiques like Tres Belle seemed to have a nice run, but just couldn’t quite pull it off. Remove any sort of anchor (like North Hills’ Target and the movie theatre) and I wonder if a boutique-only center can survive in that area.
Hopefully, it will be a successful venture. There is certainly enough disposable income in that area. But, what will be interesting to see is if folks in that area will be willing to spend their big money in a center in that location or if they will continue to drive to North Hills, Cameron Village, Saks (not the rest of TTC though!), and Southpoint due to the validation factor…
Hrmmmm, who knows? I wouldn’t put my own money into Lafayette Village, but then again I am not sure I’d bet against it either. Either way, go ahead and chalk up another loss for the trees of North Raleigh. They seem to lose no matter what…
The developers tell us they are expecting a late 2007 early 2008 completion date. Now, if recent development in Raleigh is used as a gauge, I’d bet no earlier than late 2008… if then….
I like the look of the renderings and am excited that this is not just another strip shopping center at the back of a giant parking lot. However the thing that scares me is that this center has a totally inward design surrounded by parking. This concept was a failure at the Peachtree Market on Six Forks and at Waverly Place in Cary.
Those centers were built in the late 80′s, however. Hopefully shoppers have gone past their addiction of having to SEE their potential targets in order to explore.
I think that the true success of North Hills and, for that matter, Reston Town Center (a grandfather of this design in Reston, VA), is that they blend the pedestrian experience WITH the auto experience. As long as the traffic is calm, I think that pedestrians can have a great experience while exposing curious drivers to a wealth of shopping options. A safe, steady flow of cars gives a subtext of activity not really seen at most pedestrian only experiences.
Personally, after 12 straight weekends of fighting trees in my yard this fall, I’d like to chop down a few more trees. Seriously though, I imagine that more trees were felled when old man Cameron cut so many down to build his farm way out there just north of Hillsborough Street.
The backside of Falls Pointe was a disaster waiting to happen. Space turnover has been several hundred percent since opening. I’d venture a business would get more traffic just about anywhere… whether that’s enough to compensate for the North Hills rent is another issue.
Anyway, I pass the site every day and it’s of no interest at all. The “old country village” they’re trying to emulate would focus on essentials, while this is exactly the opposite.
I like the layout as well, and it doesn’t take much to figure out that the developers are after a “french shopping village” feel with the close walkways, fountains, etc.
I’m having a hard time getting a feel for the scale of this place though. One of the blessings of the outdoor shopping experience is quick and easy accessibility, especially when it comes to one-stop shopping. That’s where North Hills excels so well.
The design looks lovely, and a successful run for something like this would be great for North Raleigh. It’s not really convenient for anyone else though, the exception being commuters who travel 540 daily. I don’t see how it could be a draw from people in other parts of Raleigh and the area to pass up Crabtree and/or North Hills to get to this place. There would have to be some pretty unique stores in there to make it a draw, but that would have to be balanced to keep drawing traffic in from nearby residents.
Right, because it is always best to focus on imitating an intimate, walkable “downtown-like” space by pumping money into a strip mall with fancy, faux-period-of-your-choice “architecture” instead of actually creating a living, breathing downtown. At the end of the day, it’s just another Streets at Southpoint or Crossroads for people with an extra digit or two in their annual income. Maybe the North Raleigh crowd will like it, maybe they won’t. I certainly don’t have any intentions of burning my fossil fuels to visit.
Yawn, it’s a fancy strip mall. And holy crap, what does this mean (under “retail mix”): “One can imagine…a balloon Man to bring the vision of a Monet painting to life.” How do balloons emulate the ideals of a leader of Modernism and what in the world does that have to do with shopping?
I am certain that I don’t say this nearly enough… but THANK YOU to those of you who take the time to voice your opinion on Raleighing. Neither Dana nor I think that our opinion is the final word and we absolutely love the exchange of ideas.
Granted, we do expect folks to enjoy biting wit if they mount significant opposition, but then again, those are my favorite moments here on Raleigh and are the reason that I donate so much of my time to this site with zero pay.
Thanks folks! We live in a rockin’ town and I feel absolutely blessed that so many of you are taking such a focused interest in Raleigh. You all ROCK!
Happy New Year… you all deserve it!
Yeah, BryanT took the words out of my mouth. If I wanna be in an intimate, walkable downtown-like space, I’ll just go to the real thing.
Interesting concept. I am a little curious whether it would have the critical mass to attract a substantial customer base.
For myself, if I had the income for boutique shopping and upscale ambience, I’d probably just visit an actual French village once a year or so. But maybe my preferences are unusual.
The question I have about this development would be – how accessible will it be for people in the subdivision across Falls (I think it’s called North Ridge)? What works about North Hills for me is that, as I live in the North Hills area, I can get there with a short bike ride / long walk. As my kids grow up, I’m sure they will head over there for a bite and a movie without having to bother with a car. At the very least, its a 2 minute drive from my house.
As a development, North Hills is great, but what really makes it a destination is its location. The corner of Falls and Honeycutt? No way. No one will drive more than 5 miles to this. The question is just how strongly it is able to draw from the immediately surrounding area. The only possible exception to this is frequent 540 commuters.
My favorite thing about this is that on the rendering on the homepage, all the men in the picture appear to be scowling and pulling their wives toward the car. Exactly what my husband would be doing in this type of development.
I share Brian’s concerns on how this ‘village’ will connect with the surrounding neighborhoods. Hopefully there will be pedestrian friendliness with the neighborhoods, for everybody’s benefit.
Yes, this can be considered just another variation of a strip mall, but I applaud this developer for trying a different layout. As Dana said, others have tried with varying success (although is Peachtree Market such a failure?), and I will be rooting for them!
I don’t get it.
It seems that every other week, after the sucess of NH, people are announcing these “urban” “pedestrian” shopping centers. Is this all Raleigh will be in a few years, a sea of north hills shopping centers?
I don’t see why people don’t understand that unless it’s downtown, it is not going to be urban. It can be pedestrian friendly, and mixed use, but it won’t be urban. Why doesn’t someone step up to the plate and build something like this downtown, where it belongs.
Jacob, I agree with what you are saying, up until the last sentence.
We definitely *don’t* need someone to build one of these faux-downtowns in our actual city center. We need a healthy mix of work places, living places, restaurants, bars, green spaces, and retail. Shopping certainly has a place in it all, and there can even be blocks where the ground floor spaces are predominantly given over to shopping, be it high-end, designer boutiques or places aimed at the rest of us. However, creating any sort of “destination” shopping center that is artificially intended to be pedestrian-friendly would not be good for downtown. The current crop of mixed-use building with offices and residential condos on upper floors and spaces at ground level for retail and restaurants is much healthier. What we need is more strong tenants in some of these areas, and ways to draw consumers downtown for activities like shopping and the like.
Building more “destination” centers like this – to go along with North Hills, Brier Creek, Crossroads, ad infinitum – is only diffusing the critical mass that would bring people into the center of the city, enliven it, and further fuel the growth that is going on there. Another shopping center like this, especially in an area that isn’t even considered one of the zones outside of downtown targeted for growth and development, adds nothing of significance to the city.
Of course, your mileage may vary.
It looks decent, and is a step up from typical north Raleigh strip-mall development, but it remains a suburban-style, inward-facing development. Take a look at the parking arrangement–the first thing you see from the road or sidewalk are the parking lots on the outside. You then must drive, park and then enjoy the faux-French-village-like-experience. I suppose it’s step in the right direction.
BTW, you gotta love their claim that Lafayette Village is “Arguably, THE premier mixed use site in the Raleigh market area.” LOL.
I agree with ChiefJoJo… This project is a step to the right direction and that is all. Will Lafayette Village beat North Hills and become THE premier destination? I have some serious doubts. North Hills is not even finished. There is a lot more coming to it, besides the North Hills East “extension”. While not 100% urban, North Hills blends better with the surroundings, providing a smooth transition from residential areas to busy streets and a major highway.
Another interesting – and valid – point raised here was the demographics question. Can this project survive? As someone who not only lives nearby – Falls Village – I can say with confidence: Yes. Not only the North Ridge area would support it, but the well-off neighborhoods to the West/North-West, too. Have you guys visited the Devon subdivision? We are talking about big money in that section, and it is not the only “supporting” neighborhood. Falls Pointe has proven to be a let-down to most of us. Very fake, very suburban and very uninteresting. Lafayette Village may bring some faux elegance, although it may look out of place for a while, until the rest of the area gets redeveloped properly.
That having been said, Lafayette Village could have been 100 times better, but the developer missed a great opportunity. Some nice features will place this project higher on our list, but nothing to be excited about, in my opinion. If the developer plays the cards right, it may become a decent destination, but nothing to write home about. By the way, expect a lot more North Hills “clones” to pop up in the area…
Perhaps it is just me, but I find it disappointing when something like this is justified by people saying, “It’s a step in the right direction,” or, “It could have been worse.”
That’s hardly a glowing appraisal. As has been said elsewhere by others, Raleigh should no longer feel it has to settle for whatever it can get. Bland developments and badly imitated architecture from hundreds of years ago (What does a quaint French village have in common with a modern upper middle class shopping development, anyway?) are not going to make us the city we want to be. Raleigh should be demanding, and receiving, much better architecture and urban planning than the likes of this. The time for excusing such mediocrity has to pass if we are to become the city we aspire to be.
North Raleigh is missing a lot of what this developer is trying to draw. Can anyone name a good bakery, bread place (such as LaFarm in Cary), Chocolatier, or even a wine shop (such as the Wine Merchant) as they mention here in North Raleigh? This would be a great one stop shop to get these great essentials that North Raleigh is missing. Now, a Gourmet Market just up the road from the Fresh Market is perplexing. Who could they get to fill that spot. I agree with the boutiques, do we really need ANOTHER boutique in Raleigh??? But, we can use a good loaf of bread and a great glass of Cabernet.
Please. This is not European; this is not a village. It is a theme park, and a weak one at that. Or it’s a strip mall with better trim. Time will tell.
Villages have RESIDENTS. On a per square foot basis, this development has about the same parking ratio as Southpoint Mall. This is a suburban design that does not interact with its neighbors, and it is mixed use by the weakest of definitions.
I agree with Bryant that a city like Raleigh should not have to settle. However, if the genuine consensus is that this is an improvement on the status quo, then the bar is set very low and Raleigh does a LOT of settling.
I have to say, I am ecstatic about the prospects of this village. It is definitley going to be a unique setting, something different from what everyone is used to. It will be a good place to spend a Saturday / Sunday afternoon and at least take you away from the hustle and bustle of the city. I have included a link I have found which everyone should find useful.
http://www.lafayettevillageraleigh.com/index.htm
Personally, I will do my best to make this venture an incredible success. I live in a nice neighborhood nearby and can assure you my neighbors and I will support those who were willing to put this wonderful investment in out backyard. From Wakefield Plantation, to Faircroft, Devon, Bailey Farms, Bent Tree, and all the beautiful neighborhoods up Honeycutt, along Durant and Strickland, down Falls of Neuse, or any home nearby, high priced or not, we will thank these store merchants with our business. Don’t be surprised if this ‘village’ steals some business from North Hills. We love our Falls Village, all the new shops being built along Durant like the Chop House, and North Hills too (Mura for their incredible Sushi in particular)! and will still continue go to all of them as well, but Lafayette Village may be a lot more successful than some think mainly because it’ll be unique, unlike the same ‘ole you see everywhere else. And that will draw people, you watch. My family will help make it so. And I’ll bet there are many more families who will enjoy, and support the same. Looking forward to next summer when it opens!
I agree with the previous posting. With the expansion of Falls of Neuse Road from WakeField it’ll be even more convemient plus half the drive vs North Hills. If Lafayette as nice (or nicer) than North Hills, I think it may be North Hills that has more to worry about if people stay local. There are a lot of people with money to spend around Lafayette Village and we need some nicer places to shop and dine at around here. Add to that people who will drive to Lafayette just for the uniqueness of it all(assuming it lives up to the hype) then it may be a real success afterall. Time will tell but like someone else said above I surely wouldn’t be against it. This section of Raleigh will only get more popular which means more houses, more customers in future.